Eye witness account from East Timor

This transcript is supplied courtesy of the Uniting Church and is reproduced in full.

English translation of audio tape by East Timorese person in hiding Sept 21, 1999. Editorial fleshing out in parentheses ( ).

TAPE #1, Side A: "Before the current groups referred to as militias appeared there were two Tetum terms in widespread usage, mauhu and bufu. But these groups had the same function as those referred to now as militias, that is, going in and out of people's houses, terrorising people, and always trying to dig up information that in fact might be a personal problem with someone else, but which could be twisted or construed as something that could be blown out of proportion and turned in to ABRI (Indonesian armed forces) as a basis for killing the person. So in fact, this kind of person has been functioning since the time Indonesia entered East Timor-these people referred to as mauhu, bufu and intel. They've been around for a long time. Then after that, because these people began to be known and recognised, then we began to get people with heads wrapped like ninjas.

There is ample evidence by those who have been captured, that many of these guys are actually KOPASSUS (Indonesian Special Forces), also from ABRI. They come in and pretend to be one of the people, and then carry out these activities. And ABRI always seek to recruit poor people. Those who need some sort of financial assistance or respond to financial incentives. This provides an easy opportunity to give money and rice (using IMF, World Bank, and various other aid money). For example, in my area the poor who will work for ABRI are each month given 10 kg of rice, and Rp75,000 to provide intelligence information about pro-independence sympathisers and to terrorise others.

This term militia is relatively recent, since President Habibie announced the possibility of a popular vote for the people of East Timor. And these militia groups are all over the place. For example, in the town of Same (south-central mountains) the group is called Ablai, whereas in Dili (the capital) the group is known as Aitarak, in the town of Maliana (near western border in the mountains) it is called Besi Merah Putih, and there are others like the one called Mahidin (which is an acronym standing for "live or die for Indonesia"), etc.

Now before this had fully developed, we once gained possession of a letter. It said, "Kill off all the people, including small children and old people--those who live in Dili are all considered to be pro-independence." So that letter was from a militia commander who name is Lafaek written to another battle commander named Joao Tavares (militia commander in Maliana). Now this was giving a conclusion that most of the people in Dili were considered pro-independence, not seeking agreement about the truth of this assessment nor inviting discussion about the command to kill off everyone considered to be pro-independence-from small children to old people.

So after we obtained a copy of this letter, before we had a chance to circulate it, it already began to happen in Liquisa (town on the northwest coast on the road to Dili). That was when they killed all those taking refuge in the priest's house, and they even threatened to kill the priest, the church was trashed, the priest's house was torn up. That happened then (around late March/early April 1999).

There was evidence of prior planning in that attack. It was well known in the community that a large number pro-independence people had taken refuge at the priests' house. Then after they had been there awhile some police suddenly showed up at the house claiming that there was a militia group that was going to attack the house, so they claimed they had come to protect the house and refugees. But suddenly they began shooting (in the air and into the house). Shortly after they started shooting, then the militia group suddenly appeared claiming they only arrived after the shooting started. So this was a prearranged deception where each group (army and militia) could accuse the other. But that was just an excuse. So the militia claimed the pro-independence supporters had started the shooting. So they attacked the house and began killed everyone in it. Then they used tear gas so that those people, those hundreds who ran out of the house, couldn't see anything, so it was easy for the militia to kill them. But the killing wasn't just a simple killing. After they were killed they were hacked to pieces.

Now it is the analysis of almost all of us, that ABRI was setting these incidents in motion so that when the time came for them to have to leave East Timor, they had deliberately orchestrated these types of incidents ahead of time so that the East Timorese would continue to take revenge on each other for a long time to come. With these kinds of incidents there would be no way that there could be peace among the East Timorese themselves. So there was a high likelihood that things would revert to a civil war again. That would provide them a reason to come back and take over East Timor again at a later date. That is what many of us think.

Later, when riots began happening all over the country, then some of us began to think there was also a connection with what was happening in Jakarta. It was looking more and more that ABRI was setting in motion many of these riots, so they could then come in as the 'saviour' to save the situation and then declare that to keep the country under control, the only way to do that is to have a military person as president. But it is appearing that (although they have set a lot of chaos in motion) ABRI has not yet been successful in getting things under control anywhere. One example is when the chief of the armed forces came to Dili to establish peace and accept the surrender of arms. But these arms, according to the militias themselves, after they were collected and surrendered (in front of television crews), they were later returned to the militias. That is just like when a troop pullback in East Timor was announced from Jakarta, they got onto ships in Dili in front of television crews, but then these same troops came back into East Timor within hours and days on the same ships in Baucau and Los Palos (in the east). This is the incredible (not credible) way that ABRI works.

It would be difficult for me to declare that all Indonesian people are not good. In fact, many Indonesians do not approve or agree with the way ABRI does things. But as for ABRI, I really really...hate ABRI. Because ABRI is renowned as a vicious murderer of their own people, probably the most infamous murderers in the entire world. Everybody is a little bit evil, but nobody is as evil as ABRI in Indonesia. Because of that, when some people say that ABRI is doing all these evil things to restore or establish a secure environment, I don't think that is true. It is probably more appropriate to say that ABRI itself has to be 'secured'. Not that ABRI should 'secure' other people, but that they themselves need to 'be secured' by our country. This country of Indonesia needs to get ABRI under control. They should no longer function as the security force for this country.

An incident in Ermera (in the mountains southwest of Dili) in April 1999: The victim in this case was a (relative) of mine and I know exactly what happened. This modus operandi had already happened a number of times before, and also in other places. They had been firing off one or two shots around town. Because of the sporadic shooting, a cease fire had been arranged between the district legislature, the people, and ABRI, so that there would be no more shooting within the town limits. And the legislature took responsibility for enforcing the cease fire. Now my relative who became the victim in this case was also a member of the legislature. So when he heard the shooting, he felt responsible to go out and find out who was breaking the cease fire. So he went out in his car. Suddenly he was surrounded. After he was surrounded, they shot him when he got out of the car and ran. They shot him dead. Then they came and cut him up. His wife and children were also chased and almost killed. His wife ran into the hospital. They hid in a medicine cabinet. They climbed inside, and then other friends hid them there. Later they were able to get out and escape.

Q: Who shot him?

A: It was ABRI. It was ABRI who shot him. But they told the press that it was Falentil (armed wing of the united resistance) who shot him. In fact that is not true. It was ABRI that shot him. Now that person, the one who shot him, I know who shot him. I know that person. He is the hansip (local constable who reports to ABRI), but ABRI was with him when they did it. They claimed it was Falentil, but there is no way that could be true. They've been doing this all over the place. ABRI finishes shooting someone, and then they claim it was some other group, usually claiming it was Falentil, sometimes saying it was some unidentified person, and sometimes when there are too many witnesses they say it was someone wearing an ABRI uniform, but not ABRI.

An incident in Maliana (also in April): There was a really nasty case in Maliana. This was in broad daylight, and everyone there saw it happen. They came in and interrogated the teachers while the elementary school was still in session. Then they summoned five of the teachers down to headquarters and order them to line up in front of the district military headquarters (KoRaMil), and then they shot them. After they shot them, their families requested to take the bodies so they could bury them. But they were told, "If you all want to become corpses yourselves, you are welcome to come and take these corpses." So they threatened them like this. All they wanted to do was bury their dead. But the army still wanted to kill anyone who came to get the corpses. The wives, husbands and children of these teachers who were killed were threatened with death if they came to get the corpses. That is the unbelievable evil of ABRI.

And it is not just things like that, there is far worse. They have also been raping the women of East Timor. It is so widespread it is impossible to count. It happens all over the place. They threaten someone, then take them to their headquarters, then at night they come and get the wives and daughters of these men in custody on trumped up charges, and make them sleep with the officers and soldiers at their headquarters or in their houses, or wherever they are. This has been happening all over East Timor for a long time. Everyone has felt the effect of these rapes. Sometimes it is even more sadistic. After raping the woman, then they might kill her. They have been killed in various sadistic ways. They are hung. Once a schoolmate of mine was an eye witness to one of these incidents. She is the niece of a priest in XX. When I met her she had just been released from jail. We met travelling on the ship about three months ago. She told me this story. She said when she got out of jail, her boyfriend picked her up. But she rejected her own boyfriend saying, "You better give up on me. I have decided that I don't want to get married, because we can't ever be like we were before. We were all raped. And my friends who tried to resist were not raped in the normal way. But, forgive me for saying this openly, they were stripped naked first, then they were hung up, and then they were raped." That is what my friend the eyewitness and victim said. It is too sadistic. And they also did it as gang-rape, taking turns. This was done by the members of ?? (tape unclear). The prettiest ones were reserved for the commander. That is the evil of ABRI. And this has been what we have experienced as long as ABRI has been in East Timor. Ya, things like paying people to kill someone, that is considered almost normal for East Timorese. I think the international community is aware of many of these things, but what we really regret, and what is impossible for me to understand is that with this track record, why then does the international community entrust the security of East Timor into the hands of ABRI. I still cannot fathom what line of reasoning can allow this. I don't think it is that they don't know what ABRI does. The international community has heard the reports over the years. But for some reason that evades my understanding, they still entrust the security of East Timor to ABRI. That is regrettable, to put it mildly. So because of that, you get the situation we now find ourselves in.

I met several times with UNAMET personnel. I told them about the things that ABRI has been doing to our people for many years, but especially in the past few months. But I think it must be very difficult for Europeans (=whites) to imagine the atrocities carried out in a culture so very different from their own. Maybe the Europeans are used to living disciplined lives. Maybe they are used to speaking the truth honestly, in contrast with how Indonesians speak. Maybe if Europeans speak about something shameful, maybe shame is a very serious matter. For for many Indonesians, these sorts of shameful matters are becoming commonplace. So maybe people in the western world think that if Indonesia says they are not doing these things, it must be true, because they are too shameful to possibly be true. And they are always worried about the effect on the Indonesian economy if they speak out. Westerners always say Indonesia isn't going to do anything bad, because it will effect the economy. But in reality, they do do these things. So while they say Indonesia wouldn't do these things, we have to sacrifice thousands of people's lives to death and disappearance, and sadistic torture, before we can get their attention.

I was quite frank and open with UNAMET about these things. Now one example of this thinking is that two days before the votes were cast, military posts suddenly appeared throughout the city of Dili. Some of them were only 20 or 30 metres apart. What was their purpose? It was clear to many of us that they were already planning to destroy Dili, or to kill people in mass. It was clear that with already planned from before. I remember when there was a shooting, I myself telephoned UNAMET. I told them they were shooting into houses and at people. But the army was telling UNAMET that they were shooting into the air so the militias would be afraid, so they wouldn't go into people's houses. But in actual fact that is not what they were doing! The army was shooting so the people would be too afraid to leave their houses, so the militias could go into the houses and grab people, or burn them right there inside their houses, and kill them in whatever way they happened to choose, or rape them, or do whatever evil they wanted.

So, yes, I agree with what many people have said. You cannot separate or distinguish between the army and the militia groups. To use a local metaphor, ABRI and the militias are like sugar and ants. Anywhere you find sugar, you are certain to find ants. That is the metaphor I often use in East Timor, but some friends of mine use the metaphor of a coin. It can be turned over with a different face, but it is the same coin. Where the militias are, it is certain that ABRI is also involved, and vice versa. There is no way you can say that ABRI is not working together with the militias. There is too much evidence that they are cooperating. After the militias have finished attacking, then they go home in the police trucks. They go home in the army trucks. It perfectly clear. When the militas go into the police stations, they go in and out as if it is their own home. We have seen it many times. Everyone can be a witness to this fact. But we don't have the kind of proof that you can hold in your hand. They won't let us take pictures. If we try to take pictures of this kind of collusion, they would kill us. But there are thousands of eyewitnesses. When they attack someplace, often ABRI has to arrive first, and then the militia comes. When they are bored with that, they exchanged roles. The militias attack first, and then ABRI comes along behind. It happens everywhere.

For example, just a few days ago when I was in Dili, when we were attacked at the office of XX (a relief agency), who was it that shot at us? Guess what, it was the army, and the militias were riding with them on their trucks. They were saying, "Oh the army is only shooting into the air, it is the militias that are shooting down low." But they were both riding on the same truck! What does the government mean when they say that ABRI is "securing" the militias in East Timor? And then the international community accepts this! And then they allow them to declare marshal law! The Indonesian term is 'emergency war'. Who are they at war with in East Timor? There is no member of Falentil that has been opposing them in the recent developments, as far as I know! ABRI and the militias are the ones who are chasing people, they are the ones murdering people, they are the ones doing all these things. There are no Falentil people coming and shooting at them; there are no people opposing them, none. And then they declare "marshal law, emergency war"! Maybe they have declared marshal law so they can finish everyone off. And as fast as possible, it appears. That is what we are seeing. And it is not restricted to Dili. It is happening everywhere. Throughout the land of East Timor.

Now it is said the militias are using homemade weapons, and that is true in some cases. But there are also a lot of automatic weapons. Like the weapons used by the KOPASSUS (special forces) troops, the ones that are fully automatic. The militias are using the same weapons. Where did the militias get these weapons? Where did the militias get their M-16s? What kind of homemade weapons can shoot like these automatic weapons? Sure they can make their own single-shot weapons! But if any of us knew how to make our own automatic weapons that could shoot like M-16s, we would have won our independence long ago, at least 10 or 20 years ago. That would be our situation if the East Timorese were capable of making these sorts of automatic weapons. But there is ample proof that we can't.

The militias are being given their automatic weapons, and then deliberately wrapping them in the layers from the trunk of banana trees, or tying bamboo or pieces of wood around them, so that if a journalist gets a picture of them, they don't look like, or have the shape of factory-built weapons. But their sound, repeat fire, and all the rest of their performance are those of automatic weapons. As far as I know, there are no youth who have died there from being shot with homemade weapons, except for a few using high-powered bullets.

Just recently, just before I left, we were collecting spent bullets in plastic bags, to bring to the XX office. I divided them up among my friends there. Some of them found their own and are building collections of these bullets. You can't say that the ABRI is going to 'secure' the militias. No way!

When I got shot at: On July 22, we arrived in Dili and had a meeting with a group of XX so we could divide up and spread out across the countryside. While I was speaking at the meeting, I was suddenly shot at by what appears to be an air rifle. The bullet/pellet was lead. It glanced off my glasses and hit the cement wall behind me. I saw what looked like smoke coming from the wall. I was really surprised, because it went into the concrete about 1cm. So I think they were aiming for my temple, but since I was turning my head back-and-forth as I spoke, maybe that is why it grazed my glasses and didn't kill me. (Two sentences omitted to protect identities).

Churches: I think the protestant and catholic churches in East Timor have been targetted for a long time. And church leaders there are generally viewed (by the Indonesians) as pro-independence. I do not know why they think that, but my own analysis is that it seems to be circulated as an excuse for them to kill off the church leaders throughout the province. Because if you just kill church leaders for no reason that will create a big problem. So it is better to claim a political than a religious reason. So if they are declared to be pro-independence, then that makes them legitimate targets to be killed. But it is important in this context to understand the cultural values of the East Timorese. When they see a priest or a protestant minister, they treat him as something next to God (literally: God number 2). They are seen as someone who is holy, as someone who can ensure that they will get into heaven; they are the people most highly valued throughout East Timor. But lately I don't know what's going on-it is these same people, the catholic priests and the protestant ministers, who are now targetted. They have been cursed at, chased, and even killed. I don't understand it. It used to be that any refugees would run to the church. This is because the church was the safest place. But lately, even the churches themselves have been targetted. The churches have been targetted-an object to be trashed and destroyed. What is even more confusing is the bishop. How has it come to the point that Bishop Basilio in Baucau could be stabbed? And before that there were several priests who were stabbed, even though it only tore their robe and didn't enter their bodies. Now people can even curse the catholic priests and the protestant ministers. This is extraordinary!

Drugs: We once got ahold of one young man that we later took to the YY office to be interviewed. This young man worked at a hotel called ZZ. One time he was suddenly burst in on by several other young men. These others, by their personal grooming and posture appeared to be ABRI. They brought a bunch of pills of various sorts. The forced him to take one type of pill. Another kind they burned, and then forced him to inhale the smoke. After five minutes they gave him a knife and told him to kill people in the hotel. But perhaps they had given him too high of a dose for the size of his body, so he couldn't wake up. But then the next day he still didn't wake up, so they took him home. Two days later he began to come around, and he tried to kill all the adults in his house. So when we found this out, we brought him under 'protective custody' in the secretariat of our office, at the XXX. We asked him a bunch of questions, interviewed him, and then took him to the hospital. Apparently, according to what the doctor said, he had been given some pills for 'crazy dogs', or something. The one type of pill is commonly known as sabu-sabu, but I don't know what type of pill that is. But inside the small bag that contained the pills was a piece of paper that said 'sabu-sabu'. They say it's for crazy dogs. Now these same kinds of pills have being handed out all over East Timor, so that young people are doing things that are completely foreign to what East Timorese normally do. Their own families don't recognise their behaviour.

TAPE #1, Side B: Eurico (Guterres), the commander of the militia group (the Aitarak group in Dili), when he started attacking, the first person he killed was his very own uncle, his mother's brother. He claims he killed him to show the members of his group that the goals of the militia were more important to him than his own family. I expect the international community knows what kind of drug this 'sabu-sabu' is. I think people from the YYY office have taken the packaging for this drug outside the country. That is one of the kinds of drugs that people are being forced to take. Its smoke can also be inhaled. According to that kid that I talked to before, after you've taken this drug you have a burning desire to kill-at least one person that day. He said it's just like if you don't eat, you feel hungry. You have to kill someone. Then after you've killed someone, only then can you go home satisfied and feel you can sleep. If you haven't killed you don't feel very good. That's what this kid said. Now it is ABRI who is giving these pills out. But we don't know where they are getting their supply.

Once we caught two students from the Forum Bersama Pro-Otonomi (Joint Forum in Favour of Autonomy = pro-Indonesia group). They were from Jakarta. They brought several boxes of those pills to Los Palos (large town in the eastern tip). But when we found them we were a little slow and they escaped to Los Palos. They took that drug there and distributed it, and we didn't see them again. Things were so hot in our area that I never found out how things developed in Los Palos. By that time we were already under attack.

Q: According to what you know, which churches were burned, when, and which church leaders have been killed?

A: I am not sure of the dates, but from recent information we know that Rev. Fransisco (Ximenes de Vasconzales), the General Secretary of the (GKTT) synod, he has already been killed. But I heard by telephone last night, some of his family escaped from Dili and just showed up (in the west of the island) two nights ago. They told me that there is a good chance that my older brother Rev. XX has probably also been killed. They think that because the two of them, my brother and Rev. Fransisco were last seen together. As for a number of other protestant ministers, we have no hope for their fate. Dili is pretty small, and we know that from the place that they were hiding, there is no place to escape to. I don't know why the ministers are targets. Not all of them are necessarily pro-independence. Several NGOs are of the opinion that there is a concerted effort to eradicate or wipe out the Christians. I think that is clear. We have plenty of proof. Why are the churches being burned? Why are the ministers being killed? But the mosques aren't touched! The remaining Muslims aren't being killed. There are plenty of mosques around, but I haven't seen them being touched in all this chaos. No one is throwing stones at them. That is small but visible proof to me of the religious agenda behind this. It's not hard to figure out what's going on.

But the ABRI always uses the excuse that whatever is going on, it is the militias that are doing it. But one must understand that only a very small number of East Timorese are involved in these militias. Most of members of the militias are from ABRI, consisting of KOPASSUS (Special Forces), some from Brimob (SWAT team from the police), some regular army. I have heard that the bulk of these are Muslims. They are pretty brutal.

Getting back to East Timor to cast vote: It was very difficult to get back to Dili, but I felt burdened to go, even at great risk. I felt that I was an East Timorese who had the right to vote, and felt that it was an opportunity that was only going to happen once in my life. So I tried to get back to East Timor to vote. But as things were developing so violently, I know that if I had been by myself, I wouldn't have had the courage to go. Things were really thick at the border. But I was introduced to a group of observers from several different countries. We used a bus to go overland from Kupang. When we arrived in Atambua (town still in the west of the island, but near the border), we weren't able to continue because word had come from Dili that things had deteriorated into violent chaos around Dili. So we slept in the Polycarpus church in Atambua. When we wanted to leave early in the morning, the police wouldn't give us permission to go. So we went to police headquarters in Atambua, and requested an armed escort across the border. But they didn't want to give us an escort. They did, however, call by radio to the police posts ahead on the road to tell them to let us pass. They let us through a number of police posts before the border, but we got to the post at the border with East Timor, we were detained. My friends told them that we had already reported to the police and been given permission to pass. But they said no. They said the police in Atambua had no jurisdiction over the police in east Timor. From the border to Dili the police at this post said it was up to them whether to let us pass or not. They said we had no basis for being let through.

I was really grateful that my observer friends were bold enough to deliberately create a diversionary scene with the police. In this way they drew attention away from me. By that time there were several members of the Besi Merah Putih militia group who are known to be incredibly sadistic, who had surrounded the bus. They were looking in and beginning to see evidence that I was hiding there. But one of the observers was pretty bold and drew attention to herself. So they all started looking at her and eventually she gave them her passport that she had been holding back. They inspected it and she snatched it back, jumped back on the bus, and we started off.

After we arrived in Dili, we spent the night in a house, but the militia showed up right away. They followed us there to the house and were about to throw rocks at the house. They were going to attack the house, but we telephoned the police, and the police came, and the militia disappeared. The next day we moved to the YYY office, and that night we went to stay at a different house. At 4am the next morning we got a phone call telling us to immediately get out of that house because it was about to be attacked. An hour an a half after we left the house, they burned it down. Then I moved again to the office of BBB, and slept there. But just after I got there they told me that we had to evacuate immediately from that house because it was going to be burned. About half an hour later, but we couldn't get back there. It was already burning. Now that house belonged to the head of the protestant church of East Timor (GKTT). It was his house. It had been burned. We were hunted and hounded continually in that way. Eventually I thought of trying to get back to my family's house, but I felt really burdened about going there. I thought it might be better if I just fled into the bush/mountains. But getting there by heading inland proved impossible by any route. I knew that because I had talked it over with a number of friends. They said don't even try it. Even the American consul has been ordered to get out. So I also lost all hope of getting back to west Timor.

(Sept 5): But some of my foreign observer friends had the courage to try and get me out at risk to themselves. They hid me in their midst to smuggle me to the airport. We parked a little distance from the terminal. Several of them got off the bus to check out the situation there. But things were really difficult there because the militia had taken control of the airport and the terminal. But they didn't limit themselves to the terminal area, they were also checking inside the airplanes. They were inspecting them carefully. So we were trying to figure out a way so I could get on the plane. They took my bag on ahead and put it on the plane. Then the consul from DDD did a very clever thing. He saw groups of militia scattered around. So he arranged for the observers and reporters to split up and interview all the different militia groups standing around so their attention was diverted. So each reporter interviewed a different militia group. So after 10-15 minutes when they were fully absorbed in the interview, then the consul snuck me around the back of the terminal building into the waiting room. When I got into the waiting room they were still boarding the aircraft. The militia also went on board and inspected everyone's documents again for those already on board. When they finished, then about 10 observers stood up around me and we walked out to the plane with me hidden in the middle. I'm short compared to the rest of them, so nobody could see me from afar. They got me on board the aircraft, and then the consul got off again and called all the reporters who were 'interviewing' the militia. As soon as they got on, they immediately closed the door. After they closed the door, then we left. But we couldn't land in Kupang so we went on to Denpasar.

After I had been in Denpasar for a few days I went back to Kupang. As soon as I arrived back in Kupang, everyone told me that people had been coming to my rented room non-stop asking for me. They were also looking for me at the dorm up at the university. So it was suggested I stay at EEE's house. So I stayed there, but they kept coming to the dorm looking for me. I didn't feel safe there, so I asked people if they could get me out of Kupang. (It eventually happened and was an adventure in itself). After I arrived here, I kept telephoning back to Kupang. They told me last night that four shots had been fired at the house where I rent a room. (Another source in the neighbourhood told us they heard five shots there that night.) So I don't know if they are upset because they haven't found me, or what? Why they are shooting like that I don't understand. Maybe they are angry because they keep coming to the dorm and the house where I rent a room and never find me there.

Q: What plane did you come to Denpasar on?

A: A chartered Hercules.

Q: Why did you go back to Kupang?

A: I thought it was safe in Kupang. I had been in Dili and didn't know the militias were all over Kupang openly carrying their weapons. I wanted to go there and get my personal documents and other things. But when I got there it was far from safe. And the situation there is even more grave.

But in reality I have been threatened and terrorised for a long time, and hunted for many months. I had received a written death threat (first week in May), saying that I would be attacked, beaten and killed. This happened several times.

Q: What about these stories of East Timorese students being attacked in the bus station in Kupang?

A: (several occurances beginning in April 1999): I arrived at the bus terminal to put several of my friends on the bus. But one of my friends is widely known and was dragged off the bus, and beaten to a bloody pulp. And as they beat him they declared that this would happen again to East Timorese who wanted to come to Kupang for university study. But they were opposing the Indonesian race. This happened several times to different friends.

They attacked him on the excuse that we were speaking Tetum in the terminal and that he was therefore swearing at them. But they don't have a problem with people speaking Sabu, or Rote, or Timorese, only Tetum. These and other languages are used all the time at the bus terminal. But if you use Tetum they claim we are cursing them. How do they figure that? This happened many times at the bus terminal. One of my friends was put in the hospital from the beating he got. At least one disappeared when he was dragged out the terminal and beaten (early May). So they were regularly waiting for us at the bus terminal. The militias had their people at the bus terminals a long time ago.

Before this we had already heard that the bus stations and the harbour had people watching them and occasionally taking action against the East Timorese. Other people were beaten at Tenau (the harbour for Kupang). And other East Timorese students were beaten at the bus terminal.

And I have heard that some of the young men here in Kupang are very unhappy with me and have declared that even while I was getting my tertiary education in Kupang, I nevertheless was working quietly to oppose the government. And during that time I got a phone call from a friend of mine the head of the GGG student organisation who told me that I shouldn't come to the organisation's offices because there are several other students who are upset with that reputation of mine. They obviously don't understand what is going on, but they have made threats against me. So I felt I had to get out and come here. It seems that the militia groups have begun to influence the thinking of people in Kupang. They always look for people to do not understand the dynamics of what is going on, stupid, uneducated or simple people, those types are the ones of greatest potential to serve their purposes. They can be used to create chaos anywhere.

It's like the ones in Jakarta. Give them a free lunch and you can set up a demonstration anywhere you want about whatever issue you want.

Q: Are you the only one being hunted?

A: Oh no! There are many students who have been a bit vocal about the problems in East Timor. That kind of thing just goads them. That make us a military target. But some of us started while still in high school. But then we kept all our meetings strictly secret, meeting in the bush. But now we are all being pursued and hunted like now. But now things are in the open. Anyone can talk about East Timor. But it used to be only a few people who dared to get together and talk about it. Now many speak openly and boldly and are willing to organise things. Now everyone acts bold, but it wasn't like that before. People used to be afraid of being killed or murdered. But I have been active since high school. I secretly helped get various sorts of information out of East Timor. One of my friends here acted as a funnel for channeling information out of here. But he was murdered in Kupang. His name was XX. (Two sentences omitted to protect identity.) I don't know where he was killed. But we found his body after 4-5 days. It had been thrown into the sea.

Q: How did your name get on a hit list, and how did you find out about it?

A: A long time ago, before the current militias were active, I'm sure I wasn't on a list. I was always careful not to tell my true name, and careful to not allow myself to get interviewed by journalists, and was extremely careful to not get my picture taken at meetings. I was really afraid of having my picture taken. But a few months ago I was given information by a church leader who had obtained it from the militias. When YY was being hunted (early May) he brought him safely out of East Timor, he found me and told me that he had seen a hit list from the militia and my name was in the top group of students outside East Timor to be killed. So I knew that I was being hunted more actively. The leaders of both the catholic and protestant churches of East Timor were at the top of another list. Bishop Belo's name was on the list. Arlindo Marçal (head of GKTT)'s name was also on the list. Another name on the list was, who's the guy who is head of the KOMNASHAM (Indonesian Human Rights Commission) in Dili that is a bit vocal? The number two man in the protestant church was also on the list (Rev. Fransisco Ximenes de Vasc., who has been reportedly murdered around 7 Sept.). There were a number of church leaders being hunted. But I was told I was in the top group of students to be killed.

I was a bit active in those things, but never openly. I've never participated in planning bad things in a meeting. The things I tried to do at meetings was to expose the activities of ABRI as they killed people. They were killing them as if they were merely animals. I tried to get this information out. But we have never publicly slandered ABRI, or cursed ABRI. But whenever ABRI killed someone, I tried to get the information out. If we knew about it, we always got the information out. We got it out secretly. We could never do it openly. But more recently some of my friends have been captured. They have been tortured and electrocuted. Perhaps some of them succumbed to the torture and gave our names. I have to admit that that's probably how they got the names of those in our group.

Q: How many East Timorese students are there in Kupang?

A: At the beginning of the year the East Timorese Students Association in Kupang knew about 700 students there. But now it's far less.

There is another possibility. For a long time I've been good friends with many foreigners. And with reference to East Timor, foreigners are considered the enemy by many Indonesians. All foreigners are considered to be pro-independence. Therefore anyone who hangs around foreigners is assumed to be giving information to be sent out. Yes, that's one of the problems we face. If we are not political, but want to talk about human rights, then we are automatically assumed to be anti-ABRI and pro-independence. I have often told my friends in various NGOs that they can talk about human rights anywhere they want, but not in East Timor. Because if you talk about human rights in East Timor, that is considered to be the same as opposing or accusing the government and ABRI. And the ones thought to oppose the government are assumed to be pro-independence, and pro-independence supporters are assumed to be Fretelin, and Fretelin is equated with PKI (the official communist party outlawed in 1965). All of these are supposed to be eradicated.

Q: What about this report of corpses being seen last week stacked up in the police station or the jail?

A: Oh ya. I got a phone call from a friend, who got this news from someone who had seen it with their own eyes. In the jail building there in Dili, there is the military prison, and there are prisons for ?? and ??. He said there were corpses stacked so high that he could see arms and hands sticking out of the top window. Blood was leaking out of the roof like an open faucet. We heard later that the army burned down that building when they started hearing about war crimes trials.